tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post5734439144850053367..comments2023-08-25T08:48:01.101-04:00Comments on The Pagan Sphinx: What's Goin' OnAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-28869497990917626842008-10-01T13:03:00.000-04:002008-10-01T13:03:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11865447109053570771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-4509597906205363142008-07-04T06:22:00.000-04:002008-07-04T06:22:00.000-04:00Well, thank you kindly but they're not religious a...Well, thank you kindly but they're not religious at all. Since counseling has failed us on many levels, many times throughout our lives, I'm a bit gun-shy. Still, it is not a bad suggestion; just one that I'm not sure they'll go for. <BR/><BR/>And they've postponed their marriage for another year, which is good news as far as I"m concerned.<BR/><BR/>They will have been together at that point, for almost three years. They lived together all of last year; successfully. They are highly compatible. SG1 is more sure of this than I've seen her sure of anything. I'm beginning to rethink if they're ready. They may very well be.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for th thoughts and wishes.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-53135811043850739992008-07-04T02:14:00.000-04:002008-07-04T02:14:00.000-04:00PS, lemme (a complete newbie here: Howdy!) offer y...PS, lemme (a complete newbie here: Howdy!) offer you some <I>Magic Words</I>:<BR/><BR/><B>PreMarital.Counseling.With.An.LGBT.Pastoral.Counselor!</B><BR/><BR/>One YOU will help SG1 find---and whom YOU know (on the QT) will REQUIRE <I>at least</I>, best case scenario <B>4 months</B> worth of face-to-face sessions (regardless the number of sessions) between SG1 and her beloved.<BR/><BR/>Do NOT say "You're too young/too immature": this will only drive 'em to a Las Vegas, scratch, California drive-by.<BR/><BR/>Whatever she (SG1 and Beloved) need to hear, they NEED to hear from another queer: you can't do this (the voice of a dispassionate professional will help, also).<BR/><BR/>Note: this is NOT a clever attempt to get 'em to put it (marriage) off. It IS a way for THEM to find out if they're really ready (and if the therapist is a good 'un, s/he won't have to tell them, they'll know).<BR/><BR/>I really suggest, if at all possible, said queer counselor be the marrying clergy (assuming the couple are amenable to a religious wedding). The clergy-counselor can also probably get them to hold off too many "We've Set the Date!"-type announcements, until counseling is well under way.<BR/><BR/>HTH: PS, hang in there! :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-28639309168183780612008-07-01T14:30:00.000-04:002008-07-01T14:30:00.000-04:00Johnieb - Amen. Thank you for your support and fri...Johnieb - Amen. Thank you for your support and friendship. I think dinner with you, Fran and CR would be grand, don't you? :-)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-24345300684380899882008-07-01T13:08:00.000-04:002008-07-01T13:08:00.000-04:00Dear Pagan,this raised up my own alienation (it's ...Dear Pagan,<BR/><BR/>this raised up my own alienation (it's total) with my family of origin--a brother and a sister--in fact, I've dreamed about it the last couple of nights. Thus I am late in offering my support. Nor did I want to offer easy advice to a very tough position.<BR/><BR/>I've seen my daughter through a number of bad relationships, starting when she was thirteen. Love them. Back them all you can. Admit it when you fail. You've done all of these.<BR/><BR/>Vo vo needs to be told, and how she (and the rest of the family) react to that is not for any of you (counting the whole family, CR) to force or determine.<BR/><BR/>From the black sheep in exile in New England (and damned happy to be here, and not there)johniebhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11635403219973766022noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-83849413068152170102008-07-01T10:05:00.000-04:002008-07-01T10:05:00.000-04:00Kenju: Agreed. We will be telling Vo vo (grandmot...Kenju: Agreed. We will be telling Vo vo (grandmother)as soon as she arrives at my home for the last leg of her visit. I'm actually looking forward to the weight being lifted and so is SG1. Thank you, my friend, for your support.<BR/><BR/>Lin: Thank you. SG1 and I are moving past those pitfalls. When she had her bout of strong emotion, what was running through my mind was how young she seemed. But again, don't we all look young when we fall apart in front of another? But in the last few days, as we've tried to work through this, I've seen a maturity that has been awe-inspiring. <BR/><BR/>Juan: A virtual hug feels real good to the heart - and that's not virtual. :-) Thank you.<BR/><BR/>DCup: I'm trying to forgive myself. It's getting better everyday. Thank you. <BR/><BR/>Rain: Nice to meet you. You bring up so many salient issues regarding being gay. I can only agree and tell you that I think you've hit on the what's at the core of family battles over this issue. Thank you.<BR/><BR/>CR: (( R )) The fact that our marriage is over and the four of us can still hold that family love in our hearts is nothing short of a miracle. I love you guys. And now I'm getting kind of weepy. Of course, these last couple of days, I'm sort of used to it.<BR/><BR/>PMan: My dear friend. Vo Vo has to know and soon. SG1 and I are preparing our torpedoes. :-)<BR/><BR/>Love and peace to all. I'm overwhelmed by your kindness and generosity of spirit; your ideas, your convictions and your collective heart. <BR/><BR/>Namaste (deep bow)Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-21257287955380153242008-07-01T02:07:00.000-04:002008-07-01T02:07:00.000-04:00Oh. An afterthought-SG1 is certainly old enough to...Oh. An afterthought-<BR/><BR/>SG1 is certainly old enough to marry... at least from what I have read of her here she is old enough and more than ready... and so are you... to let her be ready.Mark Prime (tpm/Confession Zero)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04683863540465969835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-57801459371389226882008-07-01T02:02:00.000-04:002008-07-01T02:02:00.000-04:00Pagan Sphinx,The one bit of something I can offer ...Pagan Sphinx,<BR/>The one bit of something I can offer you is that from what Have garnered from reading previous posts about SG1 and your relationship is that you and your daughter will not be damaged from this unfortunate, yet, odd as it may sound, needed episode.<BR/><BR/>You're strong. SG1 is strong. Together I am sure you have faced tougher odds. Time. That is all that is required. You shouldn't doubt your convictions. From what I know of you...they are what has kept SG1 from feeling alienated when it comes to the non-compliant.<BR/><BR/>I say tell her grandmother! The sooner the better. And if that weight is lifted from SG1, and I assume it is (even to you), there is nothing that will keep you from hammering your conviction home the next time it is summoned.<BR/><BR/>Damn the torpedoes- full speed ahead... right?Mark Prime (tpm/Confession Zero)https://www.blogger.com/profile/04683863540465969835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-73320965313194379932008-07-01T00:37:00.000-04:002008-07-01T00:37:00.000-04:00Gina, I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner, but real...Gina, I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner, but really glad to see how your excellent community of friends has been here for you. That's a blessing which comes with blogging from the heart.<BR/><BR/>We've had a lifetime of rough patches, us four, and we're a long way from done with that. But despite the temporary blindnesses we suffer due to pride or fear or rage or confusion, there's a bond of love here which we keep coming back to.<BR/><BR/>As long as we appreciate that when times are good, we'll bump along through the bad with some sense of our shared destinations.<BR/><BR/>Our Gurrrlz know what love is because <I>we</I> know what love is. If we fail to stand up tall enough for each other, that becomes an opportunity to do better next time.<BR/><BR/>Stating that intention was as good a resolution as you could have wished for.<BR/><BR/>Namaste, My Friend.The Cunning Runthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11480635074548499383noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-58552766596145452222008-06-30T22:21:00.000-04:002008-06-30T22:21:00.000-04:00Until our country stops making it a disgrace to be...Until our country stops making it a disgrace to be born gay, this whole issue will hurt family after family. It's such a shame as it is natural for some to be homosexual and it's not something anybody should have to hide. I like how far we have come but there is farther to go.<BR/><BR/>When my then boyfriend and I decided to get married in 1965, we were both 20. His parents were not pleased and I thought for years that I wasn't the woman they would have chosen from him. It only dawned on me years and years later that it wasn't me. It was our age. We were married when he was 21 and I was almost 21. I definitely would not have wanted my kids marrying that young. <BR/><BR/>It's unfortunate that the gay issue still represents stigma to so many because your very real concern about your daughter's youth is being mixed up with something which has nothing to do with it. I would advocate now waiting 'til 30 to get married because I see how much growing we do in our 20s and it's a shame to be locking in our options before we truly know what we want for so many things. If your daughter was marrying someone society was comfortable with, she might still have been upset that you weren't excited about her choice, but she wouldn't have this side issue thrown in. <BR/><BR/>I keep hoping our culture is changing in how it sees homosexuality as it is the hope for so many that it get realistic. I have said all along that it matters the most for the youth. It's wonderful that they can now marry and expect to have normal lives, but it is disappointing that it still represents failure to some families. When it's treated as nature, things will be better and you could argue with your daughter freely about waiting to get married. She still might not listen.Rain Trueaxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07994628226501093880noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-84407493629274063542008-06-30T21:30:00.000-04:002008-06-30T21:30:00.000-04:00I realize I'm late and I've been trying to follow ...I realize I'm late and I've been trying to follow the comment thread, but I wanted to tell you that I hurt for you and SG1.<BR/><BR/>I suspect your relationship is stronger than the difficulty.<BR/><BR/>Please try to forgive yourself for not doing what you think should have done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-63656778972120484512008-06-30T20:21:00.000-04:002008-06-30T20:21:00.000-04:00Dianne: I don't know where to begin to express my...Dianne: I don't know where to begin to express my appreciation for your story. It just joggles the mind, doesn't it, how people different from ourselves can cause such fear and even hate. How can anyone find it in their conscience to dismiss someone because their skin, religion, ethinicity and sexual orientation is unfamiliar to them? I will never be able to understand or accept this. Ever.<BR/><BR/>I'm so saddened that you went through this with your son. I have to say, though, your comeback about the possibility of one baby being white and the other black, made me chuckle sarcastically. Good one. <BR/><BR/>At any family gathering, my brother is the only person allowed an opinion (though in fairness to him, he was not present for the discussion with SG), anyone else is either cut off or their contra-opinion is dismissed. At least he hates Bush Co. and supports Barak. Phew. At least there's a little common ground there, in the political realm.<BR/><BR/>It was so good to hear from you on this. It makes me feel less alone as well. Thank you, my friend.<BR/><BR/>Peace to you,<BR/>PaganAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-6659619383367407962008-06-30T19:30:00.000-04:002008-06-30T19:30:00.000-04:00I can't add a thing to what the others have alread...I can't add a thing to what the others have already said. All I can add is my virtual hug: {{Pagan}}Janis Blandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04151059294317303209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-52793441210434640052008-06-30T13:13:00.000-04:002008-06-30T13:13:00.000-04:00I'm sorry that you're going through this. You have...I'm sorry that you're going through this. You haven't failed your daughter any more than she has failed you. Sometimes things don't go smoothly. That's all that happened. When you love people, it's important to get past the pitfalls and carry on.Sandpiper (Lin)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03704451520824495064noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-27043147386156184402008-06-30T11:49:00.000-04:002008-06-30T11:49:00.000-04:00I am sorry you are both going through this, and my...I am sorry you are both going through this, and my feeling is that the sooner you tell your mom the better off everyone will be. All hell may break loose, but that might be better to clear the air than subterfuge.kenjuhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342414519714356343noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-63319853833620726182008-06-30T11:38:00.000-04:002008-06-30T11:38:00.000-04:00pagan - as I read your post and all the comments I...pagan - as I read your post and all the comments I went back to many situations in my own family.<BR/><BR/>My son is mutli-racial - a black & white cookie he used to like to say. My family is not especially tolerant of differences. It was a clear battle with the elders - they were racist and it wasn't acceptable. What I have now is far more difficult. Closet racism and just plain stupidity. <BR/><BR/>I'll use my baby brother as the example. I love him, he is a good soul and wouldn't hurt anyone BUT he is also a product of his upbringing and has never looked to expand his horizons. So when we're all together it is not unusual for there to be race jokes. Oh and gay jokes and immigrant jokes as well. I despise them all and almost always speak up. Then I get the eye roll and the "Oh Dianne is such an activist, politically correct, too serious, too sensitive" - the fill-ins are endless.<BR/><BR/>I have tried to explain how this makes me feel on a personal level - as in don't f'ing use the "N" word and I have tried to explain how this feels as a citizen of the world. Crap like this is like an invisible toxic cloud - it permeates, it poisons, it creates a place where people (especially children) think it's OK.<BR/><BR/>I am the family downer to them. The one who couldn't find a box to think in.<BR/><BR/>It has grown worse since my son married. His wife's family literally refused to accept his existence for 10 years!! they referred to him as the "nigger" she was sleeping with. Dear God - I can't even type that word without my hands shaking.<BR/><BR/>My DIL has done little to deal with her family, even now when everyone has "accepted" my son! "Accepted"!!! Kiss my ass I think (and sometimes say) - what was there to accept!? <BR/><BR/>It's funny - my son wishes I'd tone down my objections, he is far more Zen with them than I am - or will ever be. I have listened to people talk about "what if the children are very dark" - "what if they have twins and one is white and one is black" - my response to that was - "I suppose we'll need to kill the black one" - then I stormed out.<BR/><BR/>But I get so tired of the fight! And my brother and my DIL's family are all so friendly. They live near each other and often socialize. I attend when my nieces are around, otherwise I can't take the stress. <BR/><BR/>I find myself in the peculiar position of telling my son he didn't defend himself enough and then feeling like who the hell am I to decide how he should deal with this!<BR/><BR/>So have I answered anything, solved anything. NO. I hope I have made you feel less unmainstream. I KNOW we are the stream, we just need to keep pushing the flow in the right direction, keep pushing against rocks of stupidity.<BR/><BR/>for my future granchildren - and so many others - I'm going to keep getting my energy back.<BR/><BR/>Knowing people like you makes me feel less alone.<BR/><BR/>Oh - and I think 21 is too young :)Diannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02946500110072411468noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-14149475023306455322008-06-30T10:54:00.000-04:002008-06-30T10:54:00.000-04:00Jood: I'm so glad you liked the recipe. I almost ...Jood: I'm so glad you liked the recipe. I almost tried it without radishes because I don't really like 'em a whole lot but when I saw some nice looking ones at the grocer's I added them anyway. I'll probably not use them next time. <BR/><BR/>I tried to think of something to substitute the radishes with but I came up short.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-76554874650538768582008-06-30T10:52:00.000-04:002008-06-30T10:52:00.000-04:00Dearest Sherry: Thank you. Really. SG1 and I have...Dearest Sherry: Thank you. Really. SG1 and I have been engaged in dialogue over "the incident" and about my family and how they make me feel. One interesting component of such a conversation was when SG1 told me that I had no right to be so blunt about her being too young to get married "in front of strangers". While for her this is almost true (she's referring to my brother's family and the uncle that was there with his daughter; not to my mother and other family we're close to)I had to explain to her that before my brother and I drifted apart, I did have a closer relationship to him, his wife and his kids at one time, before she was even born. And also that even though I don't like my brother, he is my brother and I love him as such. She understands a lot better now.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-52402725531804884222008-06-30T10:29:00.000-04:002008-06-30T10:29:00.000-04:00off topic: I made that incredible watermelon/pros...off topic: I made that incredible watermelon/prosciuto salad yesterday (without radishes). Oh, my god, fantastic.DivaJoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02534571327558009753noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-23487773448383619772008-06-30T09:34:00.000-04:002008-06-30T09:34:00.000-04:00Dear Fran:You never have to worry about being deno...Dear Fran:<BR/><BR/>You never have to worry about being denominational here. You come in peace and with love. That is all that matters. I thank so for your kind words and support.<BR/><BR/>GinaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-47730149719074356442008-06-30T09:32:00.000-04:002008-06-30T09:32:00.000-04:00This in my email from Homeyra:Just read your last ...This in my email from Homeyra:<BR/><BR/>Just read your last post. Since you asked for advices here is my feed back.<BR/>It is difficult to see clear when you feel all that pressure. And there is no need to be a pressure. These decisions- a marriage - are important ones. And the worst thing that could ever happen ... is not something that can't be fixed later.<BR/>It is a sort of complicated situation with your mother, there is maybe no easy answer - that' understandable. Sometimes there is no good solution.<BR/>So give yourself and your daughter time, without adding to the pressure, you are so wise that I am sure you could handle it :)<BR/>Take care:)<BR/>H<BR/><BR/>Thank you most kindly, Homeyra. You're so right, there are no easy answers in these situations. The best we can is to try to see our way through without compromising our ideals, while at the same time maintaining our dignity. Easy to say, hard to do.<BR/><BR/>Peace to you my friend.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-32892331435976259792008-06-30T07:12:00.000-04:002008-06-30T07:12:00.000-04:00i would just say, i'm sorry. i tried as best that ...i would just say, i'm sorry. i tried as best that i could at the moment. explain how your family makes YOU feel. maybe she really can not grasp the fact that many times even tho we age we still react as we always have with family. as if we haven't aged at all.<BR/>this is an emotional time for you as well. your daughter is in love and planning to be married. gay or straight, that's a very emotional time for any parent.<BR/>some day your daughter will understand that. now, her youth and her life is about all she can think about. that's very normal.<BR/>so, i'd just sit down and tell her that you love her very much but that if she cuts you some slack and the two of you make a deal to work thru this together, then whatever happens with her gandma, you two will face it together but she has to understand her grandma is your mom and put herself in your shoes.<BR/><BR/>i think it will work out fine.<BR/>as i said. weddings are freaking stressful for everyone involved at best.<BR/><BR/>you guys have an extra stress, but you'll be o.k.Sherry Pasquarellohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06107407102753464356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-54766629376424863012008-06-30T06:33:00.000-04:002008-06-30T06:33:00.000-04:00Oh my dear heart- how I wish you peace and healing...Oh my dear heart- how I wish you peace and healing.<BR/><BR/>Take these words for what they mean and not for any overtly denominational overtones - there is no way to get to paradise without crossing the desert. Forgetting religion, time immemorial is made up of people on their pilgrim way.<BR/><BR/>As you, and SG1 are on yours.<BR/><BR/>So much has already been said, so other than my above thought, I will simply wish you all peace, wisdom and healing.Franhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07181529277715646835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-29988348309393977832008-06-29T23:18:00.000-04:002008-06-29T23:18:00.000-04:00Bobbie: Thank you, dear friend. Knowing a little ...Bobbie: Thank you, dear friend. Knowing a little something about your family's story and how you raised your family, I'm greatly appreciative for your very experienced perspectives. <BR/><BR/>Both my girls are very complex, emotional and passionate creatures, highly intelligent and very intense. They are also loving, affectionate, compassionate and hold deep convictions. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, as they say. <BR/><BR/>Minne: Thanks for sharing your story. I do need to stop harping on SG1 being too young and let her live and learn. Over the course of last night and into today, we've talked a lot and I think I have finally been convinced of what a wonderful relationship she has with her Beloved. I do really like the Beloved and I must trust that their love and support of each other will see them through the rough times.<BR/><BR/>This whole experience was a lesson. I really took a beating but I learned. Must be why I'm so exhausted.<BR/><BR/>Thank you all again and again for your support, your stories and your wisdom.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17296223961815248113noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2512858685634922680.post-44086070007932727332008-06-29T21:10:00.000-04:002008-06-29T21:10:00.000-04:00Pagan: I don't know if anyone of us could have han...Pagan: I don't know if anyone of us could have handled the situation better than you did. As Mothers we always lead with our hearts and I can understand your apprehension about SG1 marrying so young, especially when she will be starting a life away from you and your protection. We all want to protect our childrenand then they reach an age were we can't always be there. It is hard. <BR/><BR/> Let me tell you a bit about my experience, maybe it will help in some small way to ease your fears. <BR/> My youngest daughtemet and fell in love with a young black man she met while in college.She became pregnant by this man at nineteen years old. My husband and I were terrified! Her is our youngest child, about to set on a journey alone and face consequences even she could not foresee. How very wrong we were. We confronted this young man and made many false accusations against him, mainly because of our fear. I will never forget him standing up to us and saying" I DON'T KNOW WHO YOU THINK I AM BUT I LOVE YOUR DAUGHTER AND WILL ALWAYS BE WITH HER" They had a a premature son with many difficulties have been married and together for twenty years and have had a good life. I wish the very same for your daughter tenfold. <BR/> Mothers aren't always perfect and sometimesI think we burden ourselves with to much guilt Let SG1 take flight as she will know you will always be there when she needs you.Minnesotabluehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09670914433184652900noreply@blogger.com